Motion on Special Educational Needs - 24th February 2010.

Motion on Special Educational Needs - 24th February 2010
Senator David Norris: First I wish to place this in a context. At the outset of this economic crisis, I warned that the Government was completely wrong to dismantle every agency that spoke out on behalf of the vulnerable. It did so and this kind of thing is the result. However, I do not believe that all virtue or human feeling resides in this House and I know my former colleague from this House, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, to be a decent and caring man. This does not mean the policies always are decent or caring because they may in fact not be. Regardless of what one might think, the loss of 1,200 special needs assistants is a quite extraordinary cull and must be explained. It appears as though there has been an attempt to explain this in economic terms, which can be highly problematic because these are the most vulnerable people and I do not believe the full case has been made.

I wish to say something in particular about St. Joseph’s school, Balrothery, at which there has been a quite extraordinary and devastating reduction of 66%. In his contribution, the Minister asked an extraordinary question of Senator Healy Eames. He asked Senator Healy Eames:

whether she really believes that a child who is developing independence and confidence should continue to receive support he or she does not need. Might that inhibit the child’s further development?

That was a most extraordinary phrase, at which I turned round and looked at some of the parents and teachers from St. Joseph’s school, Balrothery, in the Gallery. If the Minister is good at reading body language, he will have read the answer. It was a grotesque question as of course the children need it. I was very glad that Senator——


Senator Cecilia Keaveney: That is totally——


Senator David Norris: Shut up for a minute.


Senator Cecilia Keaveney: ——unfair.


Senator Ned O’Sullivan: That is out of order.


An Cathaoirleach: It is totally wrong to say “shut up”.


Senator David Norris: I listened to Senator Ormonde——


Senator Ann Ormonde: That was out of order.


Senator David Norris: It was not a bit out of order. I am fed up with this kind of thing. We have a short amount of time and there are real issues here. I am not attacking the other side, but——


Senator Ned O’Sullivan: He is not allowed to tell a Senator to shut up.


Senator David Norris: ——I do not appreciate this attempt to waste time.


An Cathaoirleach: Telling anyone in this Parliament to shut up is——


Senator David Norris: I will leave it to the Cathaoirleach, but it is not a bit unparliamentary.


An Cathaoirleach: It is unparliamentary.


Senator David Norris: I meant it and they should because that kind of behaviour disgraces them.


Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: It is outrageous.


An Cathaoirleach: Senator Norris would not like anyone to say it to him.


Senator Ned O’Sullivan: It would not work, either.


Senator David Norris: It would not bother me in the slightest. I have had a lot worse said to me, I can assure the Cathaoirleach. I am not so thin skinned. I acknowledge the fact that people on the Government side of the House are raw because there is pressure. This is a difficult time, difficult decisions must be taken and so on, but I like the fact that Senator Ormonde stated she will not stand over a situation in which special needs assistants, SNAs, are withdrawn from where they are needed. If one asks the parents, teachers and professionals whether SNAs are needed, they will tell one. It should not just be the people who are sent in by various Departments, as it depends on their expertise. They might be sent in to take part in the cull.

This is a serious situation and it was heartening that Senators O’Toole and Ó Brolcháin appeared to be moving towards a common ground in trying to assert pressure in support of the Minister. Many of these moves come from the Department of Finance. That is its remit. However, we should all stand over a situation in which people are not forced out of their work.

Had the motion been worded slightly differently and the word “failure” not been included, accommodating it would have been easier for the Government. It is not always helpful to discuss failure. The motion calls on the Minister to publish the National Council for Special Education’s advice on this issue. Points that must be considered are that he has indicated the advice is in the process of publication independently of him and that he does not have it. This was a reasonable comment to make and I was glad to be able to hear it. He was then asked to provide a timeline——


An Cathaoirleach: The Senator’s time is up.


Senator David Norris: I want a bit of injury time because I was heckled by the Government side.


An Cathaoirleach: Senator Norris will be taking from Senator Prendergast.


Senator David Norris: I will not. If she has any sense, she will keep talking past her time.


An Cathaoirleach: I will not allow it.


Senator Cecilia Keaveney: This is disrespect for the Chair.


Senator David Norris: The Cathaoirleach might face a series of challenges because this situation is ridiculous.


An Cathaoirleach: I call for Senator Norris to finish and to allow Senator Prendergast contribute. Please respect the Chair.


Senator David Norris: I will finish on this point.


An Cathaoirleach: The Senator cannot.


Senator David Norris: The Cathaoirleach is now interrupting me. I would like the time that I have been allocated democratically to speak on this issue. It is making a farce of the whole matter that we are all treated like this.


Senator Cecilia Keaveney: Playing to the gallery.


Senator David Norris: That is fact coming from Senator Keaveney. I will let Senator Prendergast in because I am sure she will make a compelling case. I am also sure she will get her full allocation of time.


An Cathaoirleach: That is fine and she will.