Statements on the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse - 27th May 2009

Statements on the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse - 27th May 2009

Senator David Norris: I grateful to the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, for staying in the House, because I know he is under considerable pressure. I wanted him to be here because I want to ask him, directly and personally, to take particular action today. I know there is support within his own party, on this side of the House and from many professionals for a motion I raised this morning, and will continue to raise, to re-examine the exemptions granted to all the churches from the operation of equality legislation.
I tabled the motion before this report and in light of the Ferns and Cloyne reports. We had the Laffoy report and now have the Ryan report, and it is getting worse all the time. Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, who is a decent man and a man of integrity, has said there is more to come in the report on what happened in the Dublin archdiocese. In light of what has happened, it is not appropriate to put the very people who have perpetrated criminal acts above the operation of the law. If that is what we are prepared to continue to tolerate in this House, every syllable said here today is nothing other than meaningless, sentimental waffle that patronises and condemns more people to the same kind of thing.
I will put a very immediate and practical example on the record. Last Saturday I attended, with the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Barry Andrews, a man for whom I have the highest respect and is a decent man and a man of integrity, a meeting of a group called BeLonG To who were opening a new office. It is a group of young gay people who campaigned and succeeded in getting a Fianna Fáil Government to authorise the issuing of posters about homophobic bullying in schools. In school, 80% of bullying contains some homophobic element and 80% is never dealt with because the teachers are afraid as a result of this exemption. At that meeting in the centre of Dublin, a 16 year old who is a pupil in a Christian Brothers school told how, during the previous week, the authorities in his school had forced him to take down the posters which would have defended young people against the operation of prejudice and bullying.
We have heard in the House about the ethos that needs to be defended. What is the ethos that needs to be defended? This was not a couple of rotten apples. It was endemic, systematic and took place over a long period, so one can ask what the ethos was. It consisted of the exploitation of children for financial reward, sexual pleasure and sadistic purposes. There is case after case. It has brought Ireland into contempt and that is why we need to do something about it.
What is the ethos? We all read the report. We heard people on the radio. Members of the religious fixed a small boy between the two halves of a window, pinioned him down in the sashes and then anally raped him. A brave, courageous, elected Fianna Fáil politician and former mayor of Clonmel said he was beaten and raped, and the next day had the sacred host placed in his mouth by the people who had done this to him.
We spoke a little in the House about blasphemy. I would like to know, is that not blasphemy? How can such people describe themselves as Christian Brothers? Do not talk to me about our culpability, our shame or our responsibility. I have none of it. I did none of those things. I do not see why I should be required to support these orders financially, when they are trying to weasel out of the situation. I do not see why an old age pensioner should have tax money taken from them. I most certainly do not see why the victims of abuse, because they pay tax, should be forced to finance their own rehabilitation.
It is obscene for the religious orders to dare to suggest they are in a position to offer counselling. How many of the victims have said one of the worst things that happened to them was to have to sit in court, sometimes right beside the people who had abused them? Does the Minister of State really think that someone who has been abused and violated needs to be counselled by agents of the very forces that inflicted this upon them?
When we have a balanced debate, these are the things we need to consider. I ask the Minister of State to go back to his colleagues and ask for the business of the Equality Authority to be re-examined. It is very clear the exemption should be removed. Taxpayers pay the wages in the schools concerned. We must also consider the fact that in some circumstances the largest hospitals in the State are directed and controlled by members of religious orders whose ethos is questionable. For example, I raised a case previously in the House about where life-preserving cancer treatment with experimental drugs was denied by an ethics committee. There was interference by secret groups such as the Order of the Knights of St. Columbanus and Opus Dei. We all know that. 4 o’clock
I seem to have been accused this morning of being anti-Catholic. I do not believe I am because I spoke out about abuse, not just in Catholic schools but in Protestant schools. I painfully placed on the record that I had the experience not of being sexually abused but of being physically abused for a while. I hardly like to say this but a very close family member was violently abused in an upper class Protestant boarding school. While I was in that school the boy next to me, who also had a dysfunctional background and wet the bed, had his nose rubbed in it every single day. He was exposed to the contempt and ridicule of other students until he ran away and was killed by a motor car. There was no inquiry in that case. I have said those things. I do not think I am anti-Catholic. I have been very fair in what I have said but I cannot see how what occurs could be covered by Christianity.
I am a gay man.

Senator Mark Daly: That is no news, David.

Senator David Norris: I do not think that comes as any great surprise to people in this House. I saw one of the “Reeling in the Years” programmes last year that was looking back approximately 25 years. I was then making a dignified but passionate plea to change the criminal law on homosexuality. Sitting behind me was a plump, smug, self-important priest who showered me with contempt and abuse. It was only last year after the events that took place that I realised who he was. Fellow Senators, that was Fr. Seán Fortune, who at that time was raping children in his own diocese of Ferns, but I was the outcast, not that man. If we really wish to be sincere, it is time to do something to stop more children being attacked.
There is a very good article by Justine McCarthy in a Sunday newspaper. She said: “They lied. They stole. They terrorised. They assaulted children. They manacled them.” They sexually assaulted them. There is a catalogue of such actions. Who were “they”? The article continued:

Throughout it all, they — and the whole world — thought they were holy men and women.

Children were made to lie in bed at night with their arms piously crossed over their chests. When they slipped out of this position unconsciously in their sleep, they were woken up and beaten. Holy men came into the dormitories at night, sometimes two at a time, and put their private parts in the children’s hands and in their mouths.
Was that not blasphemy?
On the issue of where the responsibility lies, I deny any responsibility. I spoke out, although it caused me pain as a teenager and adolescent. I continued to speak out. I have spoken out not just about the Roman Catholic authorities but about the whole situation of bullying because it is the principle that motivated me. I defy anyone to say I am anti-Catholic. I want this matter to be addressed. I am horrified by the approach of some people who should now be covered in shame. I refer to people such as Deputy Woods who thinks we should be glad the taxpayer is liable. Why? He says the State is responsible. He was negotiating on behalf of the State and yet he appeared to be more in the pockets of the church. In my opinion the victims were betrayed.
One or two people in the Judiciary, such as Judge McCarthy, was more sensitive to the needs of those people who were brought before him. What was the result? A member of the Government of the day, Mr. Gerry Boland, tried to have him sacked for being too lenient and easy. That is the kind of mentality of the person who wrote a letter to The Irish Times saying most of those people were thugs. A dignified 76 year old woman wrote back who was put into care at the age of two. She got a criminal record for being abandoned when she was two years old. That is appalling.
I appeal to the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney. I know it will be difficult, but he is a man of principle, integrity and courage and if he wants to avoid further damage in that clear area I have outlined, he should not allow what I saw not two years ago nor 20 years ago but last Saturday, when a brave young man stood up and said he was forced by the Christian Brothers to take down posters against homophobic bullying.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Deputy John Moloney): Am I allowed to add a point of information?

Acting Chairman (Senator Denis O’Donovan): Yes.

Deputy John Moloney: I have two points to make. Although I do not have responsibility for the matter under discussion I wish to respond to two points. As Minister of State with responsibility for disability issues, I attended a recent Inclusion Ireland conference. I was asked a question from the floor about State supervision and inspection. At the time I said I could not make a commitment on the issue. In the light of what has emerged in recent days I consider it necessary for me to re-examine the matter and to see whether I can make changes in that regard.
I wish to respond to Senator Norris, this time wearing my hat of Minister of State with responsibility for equality issues. I do not say this by way of pretence just to get through the door. I give him a serious commitment to re-examine the exemption clause, especially in light of what has occurred in recent days. I will not hide behind legal jargon. I intend to test the issue of why the advice was followed. For the sake of the record of the House, I do not for a second believe Senator Norris is anti-Catholic. In fact, I think the opposite.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: On a point of order, may I respond to what the Minister of State said about what was said a few weeks ago?

Acting Chairman: No, with all due respect the Senator cannot do that.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I raised the matter on the Order of Business this morning. I am pleased to hear what the Minister of State said.

Acting Chairman: I will not allow that now.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I hope it will be included in the Government recommendations.

Senator David Norris: I very much welcome the Minister of State’s commitment.