Order of Business - 23rd April 2008

Order of Business - 23rd April 2008
Senator David Norris: I very much respect the Cathaoirleach's position, the way he conducts himself and the rulings he gives. However, I must reluctantly say that I cannot give an undertaking that I will never interrupt again because it is part of the tradition of this House. Had I not interrupted and heckled yesterday, the very serious matter we were discussing might have passed unnoticed. Nobody else stopped the Senator in question and nobody else, including the Cathaoirleach, rebuked him until I heckled and interrupted him. If one studies the record, one will see what happened. There is a very useful role for the judicious interruption. That is part of the tradition of this House.
An Cathaoirleach: We are on the Order of Business.
Senator David Norris: I did so because it is very dangerous to undermine the institutions of this State. Perhaps if it is constitutionally possible, we can have a debate on the function of the Judiciary. I do not know if that would violate the constitutional requirement.
It is worth pointing to the name of the person involved. Senator Callanan said that the allegation should be repeated because it was true. I clearly heard that. The report in the newspaper said it was Senator Cannon who said that. This should be corrected. It was not Senator Cannon but Senator Callanan, who also included some personally abusive material about me which I do not require him to withdraw. I do not regard it as being of any consequence because I do not regard him as a person of political significance anyway.
Senator Mary M. White: That is a nasty thing to say.
Senator David Norris: It does not matter. It is a political statement that I can make.
An Cathaoirleach: We are on the Order of Business and I ask the Senator whether he has any questions for the Leader.
(Interruptions).
Senator David Norris: I will not withdraw it. It is a political charge. I am raising the question of the Judiciary and I believe it is very important that we have an opportunity to look at it because it is being consistently undermined. To be fair, I disagree strongly with the programme of Fine Gael as announced recently, which I am sure is well-intentioned. It suggested that mandatory sentences is the way we should go and that there must be an automatic 25-year sentence for murder and so on. If we suspect the judgment of judges, that is a very serious situation.
Senator Joe O'Toole: Hear, hear.
Senator David Norris: There was a very nasty rape case recently and one sympathises very strongly with the victims. However, there is a lack of proportion in the attacks upon a Member of the other House who apparently wrote a letter about the family background which said that the parents were decent people. As far as I know, that may well be a fact. Yet people attacked the Member when they did not even have possession of that letter.
It is very important that we have a sense of proportion because included in that is a suggestion that the judge would not be able to reach a proper decision because of a simple letter like that.

I have much more confidence in judges. When we impugn people like that, we damage things. It is a different, for example, when we put on record matters of fact, as I did, about the professor of psychiatry. I pointed out a fact, of which the public must be informed, that the authors of a Swedish report that she quoted contradicted her.
An Cathaoirleach: The Senator can discuss that during a debate at a later point.
Senator David Norris: That was followed by the head of UNICEF who said her use of this information was inaccurate and inappropriate. I did not impugn her. I did not say there was anything ideological about what she said, although my colleague, Senator Mullen, impugned the reputation of those Swedish researchers without knowing anything about them. He said they were ideologically driven. There is no doubt that both he and Professor Casey have an ideological background because they are involved in the Iona Institute, but I am only interested in the question of the facts.
An Cathaoirleach: The Deputy has made his point.