Joint Committee on Transport - Transport Users Survey 2006 - 17th May 2006

Joint Committee on Transport:
Transport Users Survey 2005: Presentation - 17th May 2006
Senator Norris: I welcome our visitors. I wish to follow up on my colleagues’ comments on the methodology of the sample because 75 appears to be a small number. If I recall correctly, I understood there had to be more than 1,000 to reach something called the chi factor, which meant one could extrapolate and make national assumptions. I assume that is possible with 75, although it is in some other way I have not understood. Could our visitors give us some information regarding the geographical spread and how these people were selected? Are they all business people or are they general consumers? There is a possibility that they might all be business people.
With regard to rail freight, it is a great pity that this aspect of Irish transport has been so neglected. I am sorry that there are no plans in the new Cork Port development for a railhead. This is something that should be seriously considered if we wish to move more goods off the roads, where they are not universally welcome. Mr. Murphy mentioned another port.
Mr. Murphy: Bremore in north County Dublin.
Senator Norris: I am surprised there was no mention of the metro in Dublin. I believe this is one of the principal ways of achieving a reduction in surface traffic, particularly private vehicles. Will Mr. Murphy confirm that the chambers, particularly the Dublin Chamber of Commerce, strongly support a metro? I am concerned that we are only getting bits and pieces. There has been an announcement of the underground link between Heuston Station and——
Deputy O. Mitchell: Interconnector.
Senator Norris: It has been described in the media as an underground link.
Deputy O. Mitchell: It is an underground link.
Senator Norris: Yes. I welcome it. May I continue?
Deputy O. Mitchell: I thought the Senator was looking for the word “interconnector”, but he was not stuck for words.
Senator Norris: Not at all.
Chairman: Deputy Olivia Mitchell should allow Senator Norris to proceed.
Senator Norris: I am glad of the protection. It is important that we examine the complete underground project, not in a piecemeal fashion but as something integrated. Personally, I favour a more developed underground project. There is also the issue of the visionary tunnel. I heard about this from professional groups that seem to think it is rapidly becoming technologically possible. I wonder about the choice between trying to develop a tunnel between this island and Britain, which seems quite adventurous, and developing one which would run directly to the Continent and which would be of enormous length. Whatever about the practicality of getting a connection to England, the one to the Continent appears to be quite fantastic. However, all types of fantastic things have happened. What is Chambers Ireland’s view on the balance of practicalities between a tunnel to England or a tunnel to the Continent?
This brings me to the question of size. Mr. Murphy referred to the advent of enormous ships. I expect that they will be built. However, what about the safety factor? If one of these large vessels was involved in an accident, issues surrounding oil spillages, contamination from the products on board, etc., would arise. These vessels become more dangerous in direct proportion to their size. In addition, if ships of this size are coming to the country, presumably there will be lorries of a comparable size distributing the goods. Does that not make it even more farcical that the Dublin city authorities so resolutely opposed a small enlargement of the tunnel to allow these larger lorries to use it? That seems daft. In future, such lorries might be even bigger. It is, therefore, bizarre to talk about diverting these vehicles - which should be removed from our streets - back into the streets of the inner city.
Mr. Murphy referred to privatisation of the bus system and so forth. There are various problems with that. The State bus company, for historical reasons, has adequate garage facilities. The private bus companies appear to have no such facilities and use the public highway to garage their buses. One can see this throughout the city but, more particularly, in the north inner city. The Dundalk buses, for example, provide a very good service but clog up parts of Parnell Street and Mountjoy Square. This is not a proper use of the city’s resources. It is not a sophisticated approach to transport that the only place one can pick up bus connections between the major cities and Dublin is on the public highway, where they create a nuisance, double park and dribble oil everywhere. Will Mr. Murphy comment on a method to provide some bus stations, even for private buses? If there is to be a major development of privatisation, it is not appropriate that this expansion should be on to the public streets. There must be some provision for garaging.
Mr. Murphy: I will try to address the Senator’s questions in the order they were asked. With regard to the methodology, pages 29 and 30 of the survey, which was distributed to the members, outlines the number of recipients and respondents and provides profiles in respect of them. A total of 600 businesses were profiled. The survey was undertaken with MORI MRC, a reputable survey company. That company is comfortable with it being a statistically valid sample size.
We spoke about the indicative number when we broke it down to the eight EU NUTS regions. There are NUTS regions for eight areas of the country and there are 75 respondents per region. That is where the data start becoming indicative in nature. This ties in with Deputy Olivia Mitchell’s query regarding the 75 and the indicative number in respect of Dublin. We were not biased towards Dublin even though perhaps one third of respondents were from there and it is the principal port for the country. Given the way in which much of our country is tilted infrastructure-wise, Dublin has a direct influence on many other parts of the country from an infrastructure and transport point of view. In many ways, the perceptions of that among the two thirds of the population living outside Dublin are equally valid and, therefore, we are reasonably comfortable with the breakdown for the NUTS regions. The other issue is we have to get a sample from across the country. Since we represent business communities throughout the country, we need data of interest to them also which is why we break it down in that way.
Chambers Ireland is supportive of the metro. Dublin Chamber of Commerce will appear before the committee tomorrow, so members can ask it in greater detail exactly what it thinks about the metro and how it should go. However, Chambers Ireland believes it is important and very much needed. Going via Dublin Airport to Swords is good.
I turn to the Dublin Port tunnel and the size of ships. Whether we like it or not, the size of ships is increasing. The 12 ships about which I spoke are 1,200 ft. long and 150 ft. wide. These enormous ships have been commissioned and the size of ships will only get larger. The word “fantastic” is a fair one to use but, in the long-term, many fantastic things have happened for good or ill and it is a question of being prepared to embrace those changes as they come, which is what we are discussing.
In many ways, the market will decide the size of trucks. I do not believe it is necessarily the case that a leviathan ship begets a leviathan truck. It is down to the cargo container size and how it is transported.
Senator Norris: There has been no sign of trucks getting smaller.
Mr. Murphy: That is true, but it is an issue for another day. Turning to garaging, I do not know whether private operators are parking in the Parnell Street area. That may well be the case but there are ways in which it can be dealt with.
Senator Norris: It is most definitely the case. I am not against these companies which give a very good service and which have very polite, courteous drivers and passengers. However, it is not appropriate to have a bus park created willy-nilly off the main street of a capital city.
Mr. Murphy: There are ways to deal with that in the context of incentivisation or otherwise. If parking facilities are in place, people will use them. It is an issue for the city authorities to determine how it can be done.
Senator Norris: Would it be possible to do a little more work on that and to produce a few recommendations along the incentivisation lines because without that, in my experience of this country, sweet damn all will happen?