Motion on Commissions of Investigation - 1st December 2005

Motion on Commissions of Investigation – 1st December 2005

Mr. Norris: I welcome the Minister to the
House. I have but a few remarks, as many of the
salient points have been made by my colleagues.
The Minister’s contribution dealt with the technical
parameters of the Bill and I cannot think of a
better person to deal with these issues. However,
I refer to the terms and references of the Bill,
which states, “matters relating to and surrounding
the making of a confession of Dean Lyons
deceased . . .”. How far could the term “surrounding”
lead us? I am concerned not only with the
matter of the confession of Dean Lyons but also
about the plight of the family. A niece was in
touch with me and I raised the issue in the House
a little time ago. Family members feel there will
be no closure for them and they are interested in
the possibility of a further prosecution.
Senator Kett mentioned that a man in custody
made a confession that appears to be more consistent
with the facts. If there is evidence, I hope
there will be a prosecution because the human
impact on the bereaved in these circumstances
must be recognised. I believe I am correct but I
am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong. This
has happened in other cases — for example, the
same phenomenon emerged in the case of
Malcolm MacArthur where, because a conviction
was secured on one count, other counts were not
pursued. That leaves the families of the victims in
limbo. They feel there is no closure and they feel
the dignity of the lives of their murdered relatives
have not been addressed by the State.
The expense of running a trial is an issue but,
in this case, \510,000 has been made available for
the investigation. I would like the Minister to
come up with a solution. There may be an ingenious
solution whereby charges can be added. I do
not know because I do not have the necessary
background or expertise but surely it is wrong
that people should be murdered and their fate left
in a legal limbo when it is relatively clear who
perpetrated the act, nobody is convicted and
there is no closure for the relatives. This needs to
be addressed.
The sum provided for the inquiry is modest in
comparison with sums provided for other commissions
and tribunals of inquiry. Will further
funding be needed? Can the inquiry be completed
in four months? If not, why not? The Minister
has cracked the whip a little over his erstwhile
colleagues in the legal profession. I am glad
about this, although I do not mean he is doing it
a nasty way. He is suggesting that, as an elected
politician, he has a duty to ensure value for
money for the taxpayer . There is variety in the
performance of these various inquiries, some of
which are extraordinarily efficient, achieve results
and come to conclusions while others dither and
dally and wander all around the place. I hope the
Minister will confirm this will be an efficient
inquiry. It will deal with a targeted case and it
should not be allowed to become diffuse. It
should, however, consider the terms outlined by
the Minister.
Such a case is potentially damaging to the perception
of the police. Ironically, approximately
seven years ago, I was asked to speak at an international
police convention in Dublin Castle. I was
invited because the organisers wanted to spice up
the event. I certainly obliged and I recall being
virulently attacked by an Irish-American police
chief. However, recommendations had been
made at that time that Garda interviews and
interrogations should not only be subject to an
audio recording but should also be videotaped. I
pointed out that this would protect not only the
suspect but, importantly from the point of view
of the State, it would protect the integrity of the
police. A number of interrogations have been
conducted in an improper manner and the Minister
is aware of this. It happens in every jurisdiction
but videotaping will help to get around
that.
However, false accusations are sometimes
made by the accused against the police. The Minister
has spoken on the wireless about difficulties
in this regard. For example, where video
recordings are made, the defence counsel may
apply for them and they may find their way to the
associates of the accused and be used for nefarious
purposes. However, somebody of the
Minister’s intellectual ability and ingenuity will
find a way around that problem. It is regrettable
that a vulnerable homeless person should have
found himself in this situation. One can understand
the alacrity with which the police received
a confession because it made their job so much
easier. However, in this case, the shortest way
home was the longest way around. I could use
many cliche´ s including a number in Latin such as
festina lente but, sometimes, a bit of a rush mucks
things up. Will the Minister outline whether it will
be possible to provide closure for the family of
the two women, Mary Callinan and Sylvia Shiels,
because they feel it keenly? I doubt if I am only
person who was written to in this House about
this. It hit home to me that these people were
essentially forgotten. They feel very keenly seven
years later that their two vulnerable elderly relatives
were butchered but there has been no trial
or conviction and there can be no closure for
them until somebody is made to accept responsibility
for the crime.