The Trinity College, Dublin and The University - Second Stage Debate - 6th November 1998

Mr. Norris: This is an important and historic
day and the Bill is generally welcomed. There
were some battles on the Bill but those battles
are over. To a large extent, the representatives of
Trinity College won those battles. Senator Ross
and I voted against the Bill at a certain Stage to
serve a warning that where we held the balance
of power, we were not prepared to accept any-thing
other than full respect and guarantees of
intellectual independence and academic freedom.
Those concessions were generously made by the
Government. Every amendment I put down after
consultation with the board, the Provost, the fellows
and scholars was accepted.
There were some difficulties about the adoption
of one or two extra people onto the board
but that principle has, in a small way, been
yielded by the college. This Bill is a classic
example of a good accommodation. There is no
doubt that this is the best we could get and the
Bill has the generous support of the Department
of Education and Science and the Government.
It is unusual to introduce such private legislation
and the college is extremely grateful. The Provost
has assured me that the overwhelming mass of
opinion within the college —fellows, board, scholars,
staff and students — are in favour of the Bill.
The best way forward is to pass the Bill as quickly
as possible and tidy up this business.
The composition of the board is one of the
major points and the Seanad played an important
role on this issue. There was a drafting glitch.
Had Members on this side not discovered this
problem at the last minute and secured a sos so
that we could consult with the college authorities,
we might have had a permanent board of about
180 members. The higher the concentration of
academics the less amount of work usually done.
This is an important Bill which is welcomed by
the college. I am happy with the Bill. It is an
unusual measure and discloses a good degree of
co-operation between Government and the
university.
I am delighted to see references to her late
Majesty Queen Elizabeth I. She is very late —
she is gone for 400 years — but it is charming that
her title should be rehearsed. The Bill also refers
to some of her successors, such as Charles I.
These references add atmosphere to the Bill, as
does the Latin text of the college which I and my
colleagues were happy to attend. There was some
question as to whether rehearsing Latin was
appropriate as it is not one of the official languages
of the country but we are simply rehearsing
a section of the charter.
It has been pointed out to me by senior legal
experts that, technically, her late Majesty Queen
Elizabeth I’s successor, Queen Elizabeth II, is the
reigning monarch of this country. With the abdication
of her great uncle, Edward VIII,
uncrowned, instruments were passed at
Westminster and sent to all the dominion and
imperial parliaments for passing. When it arrived
in Dublin, Mr. de Valera, for his own reasons,
shoved it in the waste paper basket. The instrument
of abdication was never ratified by an Irish
Parliament. As a result, the abdication process is
incomplete and I am glad to tell the House that
Elizabeth II is monarch of Ireland. This will come
as pleasant news to many people.
The composition of the board is the most
important issue. There has been some movement
and two members from outside the college have
been accepted. This is a reasonable measure
given the contribution made by the taxpayer to
the college. The machinery adopted in the Bill for
the establishment of this person is reasonable, fair
and just. There is no overloading. For technical
reasons, the second member is unlikely to be
chosen because of the lack of machinery in terms
of local boards required to select such a person.
Some Members thought of trying to amend the
Bill but felt that that would be a redundant step,
might hold up the Bill and be academic, in the
worst sense of the word. I do not propose to hold
up the Bill any longer. We look forward to a rapid
passing of this important instrument which has
the overwhelming support of the students and
staff of the University of Dublin, Trinity College,
and which will be welcomed by all who are
interested in education. The more Trinity College
can copperfasten its position as an important part
of the university structure, the better for the education
of everyone in Ireland.

Mr. Norris: I wish to raise the composition of
the joint committee, something I have already
discussed privately. Will there be three Deputies
and three Senators? It would seem appropriate
to have representation from among those directly
connected with the university on the committee.
Will this be considered? There is a difference
between a vested financial interest in a company
and expertise, knowledge and background, something
all three University Senators have. It would
be quite appropriate for the three University
Senators to decide the matter.